Adel Al Amar and Abdullah Al Asousi

 

Debate Plan: GRAMEEN WAS RIGHT!




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Why should the U.S.A. have to help the poor people in South Asia while it has poverty in it??

1) In Feb 1997, an international Summit co-chaired by Mrs. Clinton, was held in Washington to bring together all the players in the field of development, review the progress and mobilize the political will and commitment for 'a world free of hunger and poverty' vision.

Title: Grameen Bank - Banking on the Poor, cited at: http://action.org/summaryp.html

a) It promotes human rights in every part of the world like:

a) Bdooon (The American embassy presented solutions for the "bdoon" problem in Kuwait. Al Qabas, Tuesday, 16 January, 2001.)

b)El Selvador(ask 4 evidence)

c) Galapagos

b) It previously helped and still is helping South Asia

*a) U.S. gave 127$ million to Bangladesh in1992

*b)U.S. gave 143$ million to Pakistan in 1992

*c)U.S. gave 190.1$million in 1995, 139$ million in 1996, and 136.3$ million in 1997 to India

c) The U.S.A. still wants countries to buy more products and that shall lead to more money in the U.S.A. which means less poverty.

 

 

First Affirmative: (introduction)

Ladies and Gentlemen, Honorable Judges, Worthy opponents, most helpful timekeepers, Good Afternoon:/

Hamid is a 12 year old apprentice in a lathe machine workshop in the Bangladesh capital. He helps his employer on the fast rotating machines which could maim him if he is not careful. This is his first job.

Doesnít this sound strange? A 12 year old boy working? Shouldnít he be in school? What drove him to work at age 12? Poverty. Yes ladies and gentleman. Itís poverty.

 

Resolved: The United Statesí Government should substantially change its foreign policy towards South Asia.

Definitions

First, I will define the key terms of the resolution.

The following definitions were extracted from the internet website: www.dictionary.com except for Poverty which was extracted from www.worldbank.com

 

a) United States: A country of central and northwest North America with coastlines on the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. It includes the noncontiguous states of Alaska and Hawaii and various island territories in the Caribbean Sea and Pacific Ocean.

b) Government: A system or policy by which a political unit is governed.

c) should: To have to; must

d) substantially: To a certain extent or degree.

e) change: To cause to be different.

f) its: belonging or pertaining to;

g) foreign policy: The diplomatic policy of a nation in its interactions with other nations.

h) towards: In the direction of.

i) South Asia: the part of Asia south of the Himalayas which forms a peninsula extending into the Indian Oceon, between the Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal.

j) poverty: state of being poor, which is having $1 or less as an income per day per head.

- Human rights: The basic rights and freedoms to which all human beings are entitled, often held to include the right to life and liberty, freedom of thought and expression, and equality before the law.

 

 

Second, let me point out the main harms of the status quo:

Harm #1:

There is a very high rate of poverty in the South Asian countries, and many people are suffering from poverty.

Most people around the world would agree that poverty in and of itself causes suffering. It's in the interests of all men, as humans, to help cease the suffering of the poor through disease and hunger.

Evidence #1:

***a) Based on the dollar-a-day benchmark, South Asia remains home to 40 percent of the world's poor, which is equal to 522 million people. And thatís according to the World Bank cited at http://wbln1018.worldbank.org/

Bangladesh

***a) A third to a half of Bangladesh's 127 million people subsist on only one meal a day, and there are high rates of malnutrition. From the Economist, the 20th of November, 1999. Issue 8146, page 45, paragraphs 3/5.

***b) More than 40 percent of Bangladeshis are below the poverty line.

And thatís according to Wahidur Rahman, national coordinator of the ILO's (International Labour Organisation) International Programme on the Elimination of Child Labour (IPEC). From IPS news reports, Title: BANGLADESH-CHILDREN: Poverty Turns Millions Into Workers.

***c) Nine out of ten children, in Bangladesh, are to some degree malnourished. Thatís according to the World Bank cited at www.worldbank.org

d) Bangladeshís population below poverty line is 35.6%

And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook (FY95/96.)

India

a) "A third of [Indiaís] population is poor and just a fifth can be classified as middle class; 40% are illiterate." And thatís from the Economist, the 4th of September, 1999, Issue 8135, p24, paragraph 1.

***b) The number of poor people in India, those with incomes of less than $ 1 per day, is a staggering 525 million people. And thatís according to the UNDP (United Nations Development Programme) cited at http://tveducation.tripod.com/

***c) 330 million Indians have a family income of $ 1 per day, or about 25 cents per capita per day, according to the Government of India. This is about enough money only for food, and quite insufficient for other basic needs. This is surely the world's largest concentration of the poorest of the poor. And thatís according to the World Bank cited at: http://tveducation.tripod.com.

 

 

Pakistan

The average income in Pakistan is just $800 per year, according to United Nations figures. The population of 138 million has a mere 38 percent literacy rate.

Christian Science Monitor, Oct. 18, 1999, Title: Pakistan's Military-Civil Rule

a) "The Pakistani state is not able to provide even the basics of education, health care, housing, or jobs for its people." And thatís from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Sept./Oct. 1998, p.20-21, Title: Sanctions: Lift 'Em, Author: Pervez Hoodbhoy and Zia Mian, Pervez Hoodbhoy is professor of physics at Quaid-i-Azam, Islamabad. Zia Mian is a research associate at the Center for Energy and Environmental Studies, Princeton University. They are involved in the peace movement and other campaigns for social justice and human rights in Pakistan.

***b) Pakistanís population below poverty line is: 34%. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook (1991)

c) 30% of Pakistan's population is classified as 'income poor', whereas nearly half suffers from the deprivation of basic opportunities of life. And thatís from an article from Dawn, a prominent Pakistani daily. The 19th of June, 1999. The paper can be found on the Internet at http://www.dawn.com. ***(unless asked to)By M. Ziauddin.

***d) By 1980, the number of people defined by the government as absolutely poor had grown to 34 million. And in the 1990s - between 1990 and 1995 - the number of absolute poor rose to 42 million. And thatís from an article from Dawn, a prominent Pakistani daily. The 19th of June, 1999. The paper can be found on the Internet at http://www.dawn.com. By M Ziauddin.

***e) If present trends continue, it is estimated that Pakistan will take another 170 years before it can stake a claim for a place in the list of developed nations based on socio-economic indicators. And thatís From a study started by the Dr Mahbubul Haq, but was completed after his death by Khadija Haq and a team of dedicated socio-economists including Dr Pervez Tahir of the Planning Commission, Dr Moazzam Mahmood of the PIDE, Dr Younus Jafri of the Federal Bureau of Statistics and Murtaza H Syed of the HDC. The study was cited at an article from Dawn, a prominent Pakistani daily. The 19th of June, 1999. The paper was found on the Internet at http://www.dawn.com. By M Ziauddin.

 

Harm #2:

The human rights in South Asia are suffering DUE TO POVERTY.

Poverty itself discourages human rights. Studies show that poor people are far more likely to be driven to suicide. The poor more likely turn to crime as means of survival. These human rights violations are all caused by poverty.

Evidence #2:

***a) Poverty is a denial of human rights. And thatís according to the UNDP cited at www.sdnbd.org ***(just to know) Sustainable Development Networking Programme.

And thatís a VERY clear evidence from the UNDP that proves the harm that the human rights in South Asia are suffering due to poverty.

***b) The International Labour Organization (ILO) estimates there are close to 50 million child workers, most of them farm hands in mainly rural Bangladesh. Few village girls work outside the home with 85 percent of them doing unpaid family work. They work between 10 and 14 hours a day and are paid less than adults because they cannot demand fair wages. And thatís from IPS news reports, Title: BANGLADESH-CHILDREN: Poverty Turns Millions Into Workers.

***c) "The increasing incidence of poverty-driven suicides in Pakistan in recent months seems to indicate that the poverty bomb has finally exploded." And thatís from an article from Dawn, a prominent Pakistani daily. The 19th of June, 1999. The paper was found on the Internet at http://www.dawn.com. ***(only if asked to)By M Ziauddin***.

So that shows that poverty has driven to suicides which is a violation of Human Rights.

***d) In Pakistan, 8 million children are out of school, 61 million people or 45% of the population have no access to safe drinking water; 54 million people or 40% of the population have no access to even basic health services; 72 million people or 53% of the population have no access to sanitation; nine million children under the age of five or 38% of the under-five population are malnourished. And thatís from a study titled: A profile of Poverty in Pakistan, prepared by the Mahbubul Haq Centre for Human Development (MHCHD) in collaboration with the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP).

The study was cited at an article from Dawn, a prominent Pakistani daily. The 19th of June, 1999. The paper was found on the Internet at http://www.dawn.com. ***(only if asked to)By M Ziauddin***.

 

 

Harm #3:

The South Asians are too poor to buy U.S. products CAUSING the US to have fewer exports.

The US currently enjoys a booming economy. HOWEVER, it suffers also from a massive trade deficit. In other words, the US buys more on the world market than it sells. This causes (a) the US currency to lose value (b) the US to have to raise interest rates in order to attract investment. India is the POTENTIALLY, the biggest US market with over a BILLION consumers. However, imports to the US remain low.

Evidence #3:

a) Bangladeshís first imports and exports partner is the U.S.A. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook *** donít say (exports: US 33%)

b) Indiaís first imports and exports partner is U.S.A. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook *** donít say (import 10%, export: 21%)

So in the present time, while Indiaís population is about a billion and there are 350-400 million people under the poverty line, the U.S. is its main export and import partner, so if these people get a bit richer, then India will buy even MORE U.S. products.

 

 

 

 

Harm #4:

Poverty causes bad government which leads to world instability, warfare, and more poverty.

***(only if challenged that how does poverty cause bad governments) It is well known that poverty makes the illiteracy percent high in the country. Unfortunately, illiteracy leads to note choosing good governments or not having good governments.

***Evidence for challenge:

a) Pakistanís population of 138 million has a mere 38 percent literacy rate. From

Christian Science Monitor, Oct. 18, 1999, Title: Pakistan's Military-Civil Rule.

b) 40% of Indiaís population are illiterate. And thatís from the Economist, the 4th of September, 1999, Issue 8135, p24, paragraph 1.

c) 80% of women in Bangladesh are illiterate. Thatís according to the World Bank cited at www.worldbank.org

Evidence #4:

***a) "Transparency International, a Germany-based group that tracks perceptions of corruption, ranked Pakistan near the bottom when it comes to clean government: 71 out of 85 nations surveyed." And thatís from CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR, Oct. 18, 1999, Title: "Pakistanís Military-Civil rule"

b) One of the world's poorest countries, Bangladesh, spent over $120 million to buy 8 aircrafts from Russia. And thatís from the Economist, the 17th of July, 1999. Issue 8128, p38, paragraph 1.

***c) The government of Bangladesh fears that, if it allows the export of natural gas, the opposition will accuse it of selling out to India. And thatís from the Economist, the 17th of July, 1999. Issue 8128, p38, paragraph 1.

Bangladesh is thought to have large reserves of natural gas. Shell, which operates an offshore field in the Bay of Bengal, reckons Bangladesh's gas reserves could be as big as Indonesia's, which are among the largest in Asia. A single pipeline taking gas to India could bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

 

Harm #5:

South Asian governments bad credit ratings, causing poverty, and discouraging growth.

Evidence #5:

Pakistan

***a) "Amid growing uncertainty during Sharif's tenure, foreign investment last year fell, to Pakistan, to $376 million down from $601 million the year before." And thatís from Christian Science Monitor, Oct. 18, 1999, Title: Pakistan's Military-Civil Rule.

***b) Foreign debt is around $30 billion--small by Western standards, but large for a nation like Pakistan. Debt service was set at 45 percent of government expenditures at the time of the June budget--before the collapse of the currency. And thatís from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Sept./Oct. 1998 Page Number(s): 20-21, Title: Sanctions: Lift 'Em

***c) In Pakistan, foreign loans and grants provide approximately 25% of government revenue, but debt service obligations total nearly 50% of government expenditure. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook. (FY98/99)

So in other words, the government is using HALF its tax money to pay INTEREST on past debts!!!

d) Pakistanís revenues are $10 billion, while its expenditures are $11.7 billion. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook. (FY98/99)

So, it WILL get further in debt!!!!

India

a) Indiaís revenues are $35.8 billion, while its expenditures are $66.3 billion, including capital expenditures of $15.9 billion. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook. (FY98/99)

So, it WILL get further in debt!!!!

***b) Indiaís debt external is $98 billion and the economic aid recipient is $2.9 billion. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook. (FY98/99)

Bangladesh

a) Bangladeshís revenues are $4.3 billion, while its expenditures are $6.5 And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook. (FY97/98)

(So it WILL go further into debt too!!)

***b) Bangladeshís debt external is: $16.5 billion, and itís economic aid recipient is $1,475 billion. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook. (FY97/98)

 

Harm #6:

American and International governmental programs to decrease poverty through large loans and aid have FAILED.

Evidence #6:

***a) The total credit need of the world's 1.3 billion poor (250 million families) is estimated to be somewhere between 25 and 60 billion dollars. 85 billion US dollars change hands every year in the name of helping the poor (and disappear in the black hole without a trace). And thatís from the site http://action.org/summary Title: Grameen Bank - Banking on the Poor

***b) The especially severe floods of 1998 increased Bangladdeshís reliance on large-scale international aid. However, the population below poverty line: 35.6%. And thatís from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) World Factbook

***c) By 1980, the number of people defined by the government as absolutely poor had grown to 34 million. And in the 1990s - between 1990 and 1995 - the number of absolute poor rose to 42 million. And thatís from a study titled: A profile of Poverty in Pakistan, prepared by the Mahbubul Haq Centre for Human Development (MHCHD) in collaboration with the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). The study was cited at an article from Dawn, a prominent Pakistani daily. The 19th of June, 1999. The paper was found on the Internet at http://www.dawn.com. ***(only if asked to)By M Ziauddin***.

***d) If present trends continue, it is estimated that Pakistan will take another 170 years before it can stake a claim for a place in the list of developed nations based on socio-economic indicators. And thatís from a study titled: A profile of Poverty in Pakistan, prepared by the Mahbubul Haq Centre for Human Development (MHCHD) in collaboration with the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). The study was cited at an article from Dawn, a prominent Pakistani daily. The 19th of June, 1999. The paper was found on the Internet at http://www.dawn.com. ***(only if asked to)By M Ziauddin***.

***e) India had received $136.3 million in 1997, $156 million in 1998, and $129 million in 1999, however, 524 million people are under the povert line, and thatís from the U.S. ministry of State and the UNDP cited at www.state.gov and http://tveducation.tripod.com

 

 

 

Needs:

Need #1:

We need a system that decreases South Asian poverty and the sufferings it causes.

Need #2:

We need a system that cuts down on the human rights problems caused by poverty in South Asia.

Need #3:

We need a system that makes South Asians able to buy U.S. products, thus decreasing poverty.

Need #4:

We need a system that reduces South Asian government corruption so that warfare and world instability will decrease, and thatís by decreasing poverty.

Need #5:

We need a system that allows South Asian governments to improve their credit rating leading to growth.

South Asian governments donít need to borrow anymore money. Then governments can pay back its debts. Because the system weíre making will help the people and make them richer, so the governments wonít have to borrow money anymore to help their citizens.

Need #6:

We need an effective system of loaning that decreases poverty.

 

 

 

Plan:

Plank #1:

The United States Congress will pass a bill creating the United States South Asian Individual Financial Support Agency (USSAIFSA). This agency will:

One. Establish 44,691 banks by the year 2011 all over Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, taking into consideration:

a) That 4,460 banks are to be established in Bangladesh.

b) That 4,945 banks are to be established in Pakistan.

c) That 35,268 banks are to be established in India

Two. Distribute these banks on the basis of priority for regions with more people under poverty line. This will be done through a report sent by each of the

goverments concerned giving statistics of regions and the rate of poverty.

Three. Hire a total of 500,107 staff members with predominantly local hires.

a) 50,268 staff members are hired to cover the needs of the banks in Bangladesh.

b) 55,295 staff members are hired to cover the needs of the banks in Pakistan.

c) 394,544 staff members are hired to cover the needs of the banks in India.

Four. Hire managers for the banks only from the US. These managers will be appointed by the US Foreign Ministry

Five. Grant micro-fund loans between the amount of $1 - $200.

Six. These loans will be granted without collateral.

Seven. Loans will be set out at national inflation rate plus a 5% interest rate.

Eight. Loans will be granted only on the household level.

Plank #2:

The USSAIFSA, will submit a yearly financial report to the United States Conress describing its financial position.

Plank #3:

The United States Congress will pass a bill eliminating all poverty eliviation programs in India Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

 

 

 

*Explaination for the no. of banks: "DONíT READ IT UNLESS CHALLENGED."

The Figure for the no. of banks was extrapolated from a similar private micrlending bank called (The Grameen Bank). The Grameen Bank covers 25% of Bangladesh and has 1,115 banks over there. (Evidence: http://www.grameen-info.org/bank/lookbs.html) Titled: Look on Grameen Bank balance sheet.

If you multiply this no. by 4 you will get a total of 4,460 banks needed to satisfy Bangladesh. For Pakistan, you multiply 4,460 by 1.1 (because this is the percentage difference in population between Bangladesh and Pakistan) and you will get 4,945 banks to satisfy Pakistan. As for India, you multiply 4460 by 7.846 and will get 35,268 banks to satisfy India. As a total 4,460 + 4,945 + 35,268 = 44,691 banks needed to satisfy India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

 

 

*Explaination for the no. of workers: "DONíT READ IT UNLESS CHALLENGED."

The Figure for the no. of workers was extrapolated from a similar private micr-lending bank called (The Grameen Bank). The Grameen Bank covers 25% of Bangladesh and has 12,567 staff members over there. (Evidence: http://www.grameen-info.org/bank/lookbs.html) Titled: Look on Grameen Bank balance sheet.

If you multiply this no. by 4 you will get a total of 50,268 staff members needed to satisfy Bangladesh. For Pakistan, you multiply 50,268 by 1.1 (because this is the percentage difference in population between Bangladesh and Pakistan) and you will get 55,295 staff members neededto satisfy Pakistan. As for India, you multiply 50,268 by 7.846 and will get 394,544 staff members needed to satisfy India. As a total 50,268 + 55,295 + 394,544 = 500,107 staff members needed to satisfy India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

 

 

Funding:

The implementation of the plan would cost $17,803,340,000 for the whole 10 year term. The plan will be funded through a yearly bill of $1,780,334,000 which would be passed by the U.S. Congress in a yearly basis until 2011 (for ten years from now). My partner will discuss the funding in details.

 

44.75 million are the total expenditures of the Grameen Bank in 1998.

Source: http://www.grameen-info.org/bank/lookbs.html

Title: Look on Grameen Bank balance sheet

44,750,000*4= $179,000,000 (Bangladesh)

179,000,000*1.1=196,900,000 (Pakistan)

179,000,000*7.846=1,404,434,000 (India)

1,404,434,000 + 196,900,000 + 179,000,000= 1,780,334,000 billion dollars for 1 year.

For 10 years 1,780,334,000 * 10 = 17,803,340,000 for 10 years.

$46.90 million = Total income

$2.15 million = Profit

This shows that the Grameen Bank is MAKING PROFIT. Source:http://www.grameen-info.org/bank/lookbs.html

Title: Look on Grameen Bank balance sheet

 

Working Model:

The Grameen Bank is a bank known as a "micro-lender" lending amounts of money as low as $10 to tiny bussinesses is a very efficient similar working model to the USSAIFSA. The Grameen Bank lends tiny amounts of money to people in poverty who invest these tiny amounts and repay them. Not only this bank aids these poor people in the most humanitarian way, it turns a "PROFIT!" The profit, then, invested in other small businesses. It provides credit to the poorest of the poor in rural Bangladesh, without any collateral. It has been proven an effective and popular measure in the ongoing struggle against poverty. They have an exremely high rate of loan repayment reahing 98%. These loans help poor people climb out of poverty, costs little, and encourages individual enterpenuership.

1. Source: http://www.grameen-info.org/bank/index.html

Title: Introduction.

Date: 2000

2. Source: http://csf.colorado.edu/co-op/coop-bus/winter97/0048.html

Title: Grameen Bank.

Date (only if challenged): 1997

3. Source: HRO DISSEMINATION NOTES (Human Resources Development and Operations Policy) Number 23, February 1999.

Title: Poverty Reduction Strategy: The Grameen Bank Experience.

Inherent Block:

Our inherent block is attitudinal. The United States government has not thought of the importance of micro-lending and even private plans havenít done so, although it is efficient.

Significance:

Our plan is significant to all standards since it decreases poverty in a very modernized way. It solves an extensive problem in South Asia. Specifficall, it solves the imminent problem of financial support to the poor in order to become self-dependent and more productie, increasing economic welfare. All of the statistics on poverty in South Asia provide the significance of this plan. There are 464,813,992 million unsatisfied consumers in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. This plan helps in the decrease of poverty in a very effective efficient way in which economic welfare of the poor is increased and so in the United Stateís welfare. All the harms of the statues quo prove the significance of this plan.

 

 

Solvency:

*How will u be sure that it will increase the standards of living or that they will use it efficiently?

1 I quote, "It is estimates that the average household income of Grameen Bank members is about 50% higher that the target group in the conrol village, and 25% higher than the target group non-members in Grameen Bank villages."

2 I quote, "This has resulted in a sharp reduction in the number of Grameen Bank members living below the poverty line, 20 percent compared to 56 percent for comparable non-Grameen Bank members. There has also been a shift from agricultural wage labour (considered to be socially inferior) to self-employment in petty trading. Such a shift in occupational patterns has an indirect positive effect on the employment and wages of other agricultural waged labourers. What started as an innovative local initiative, "a small bubble of hope", has thus grown to the point where it has made an impact on poverty alleviation at the national level ".

Source: http://www.grameen-info.org/bank/bcycle.html

Title: Breaking the vicious cycle of poverty through microcredit.

Workability:

How will u make sure no americans die?

I qoute, "US officials today are under less threat of terrorist acts by Islamic militants in Pakistan. The last and most recent attack was the murder of four Americans in Karachi in 1997, and ever since, no US citizen, official, or embassy has been attacked."

Mr. Raja Yepkojula; Kuwait Times; September 21st, 2000.

Important information:

1. "The USAID has been providing economic assistance to India since 1951. Our assistance since that time totals approximately $13 billion." This was citied from the USAID Assistance website sited at http://www.usaid.gov/regions/ane/newpages/one_pagers/ind.htm Titled: USAID Assistance: India.

2. 2. "There are more poor in India than in all of sub-Saharan Africa. India accounts for 25% of the worldís childhood deaths and 40% of maternal deaths." This was citied from the USAID Assistance website sited at http://www.usaid.gov/regions/ane/newpages/one_pagers/ind.htm Titled: USAID Assistance: India.

3. "External debts now stand in Pakistan at $38 billion and is equal to 46% of the GDP."This was citied from Dawn website sited at http://www.dawn.com/2000/08/21/nat1.htm Titled: Leaders demand debt relief for Pakistan. Date: 21 August 2000 by the (Dawn> correspondent in Islamabad.